Last regular season game on Sunday!

Where has the season gone, my friends?

On Sunday, January 2 the Green Bay Packers will play and defeat the Chicago Bears at noon. Lambeau Field is where I'll be at, courtesy of a Christmas present of Green Bay Packers tickets. Thanks, Gma!

Tune in to Fox Sports otherwise.

It's 2011 and there's no better way to welcome the year than with a Green Bay Packers win!

Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Pack!


Brad Jones' Viola

Let me introduce you to Green Bay Packers linebacker, Brad Jones.

Brad Jones"Hi, hotforthepack blog readers."
"Hiya, Brad!"

Quick facts about this guy.

He wears jersey #59. He went to college at Colorado. He was born in Lansing, Michigan. Now lives in Boulder. Plays the viola. Is 24 years of age. And James Baldwin is his favorite author.

* Record screeching sound.*

Back it up.


Yes, my friends. Brad Jones enjoys playing the viola!

ViolaA viola is the stringed instrument that falls between the cello and violin in size and depth of sound. Here's a tutorial for those of you unfamiliar with viola facts:

I always admire those who are musically talented (remember past blog posts about a certain Green Bay Packer who plays the drums, trombone and tuba? Bonus points for putting his name in the comments!). Brad Jones just went up in my estimation because of this fun fact.


Mark Tauscher the newlywed

Did any of you all get an invite last summer to the wedding of Mark Tauscher and his fiance, Sarah Helgeson? On that beautiful July day, Mark Tauscher said "I do" in Madison, Wisconsin and around thirty of his fellow football players were there representing his Wisconsin college team and the Green Bay Packers. Even Green Bay Packers left tackle, Chad Clifton, was a groomsman.

Mark Tauscher HeadshotMark Tauscher wishes he were in a tux.

So, how long exactly does the newlywed label last? Six months? A year? Two years? As long as your registry is online? Apparently, Macy's and Williams and Sonoma keep those suckers up for at least a year--it's one the first listings when googling the couple's names. Weirdness. Feel free to buy the pair some Kate Spade dinner plates. They still need four!

Wedding Registry
Mark Tauscher's marriage may be new, but his career in the NFL is not. He started in 2000 and has seen stints in NFL Europe, the Green Bay Packers, and on the injured list. Let's hope his knees stay strong and healthy for the upcoming Green Bay Packers 2010 season. Gooooooo, team!


Green Bay versus the New York Giants

December Lambeau Field games are not for the faint of heart.

Are you tough enough?

Fan enough?


...to attend a game on the 26th?

Green Bay Packers tickets are few and far between but still out there. Game time is 3:15 p.m. at Lambeau Field on Sunday, December 26. It's going to be a good one!

If you aren't able to attend the game (no judgment) then tune in to Fox Sports.

And watch the rest of us true fans see it live (judgment).


Purchase Green Bay Packers Tickets!

The Green Bay Packers are in the thick of a wild-card race for a birth in the NFC playoffs. They have 2 games remaining and control their own destiny if they win out. The last two games remaining are the Chicago Bears and the New York Giants. Purchase your Green Bay Packers tickets from Green Bay Packers tickets!


Ryan Pickett will crush you

If you're looking for the heaviest, beefiest, thickest dude on the Green Bay Packers team, look no further than number 79, Ryaaaaaaan Piiiiiiiiiiiiiickett!

Ryan Pickett"Wheeeeee!"

Though the guy stands at 6'2" (definitely not the tallest on the team) he outweighs all his fellow teammates, including B.J. Raji by 3 pounds. At a hefty THREE HUNDRED AND FORTY POUNDS, Ryan Pickett is a whopping 149 pounds heavier than his lightest green and gold teammates, Brandon Underwood and Tramon Williams who are tied at 191 lbs apiece.

Well, I calculated Ryan Pickett's weight in a BMI program and the news ain't good. According to that device, Ryan Pickett's BMI is 43.6. Obesity is labeled anything over 30. Yipes.

However, those BMI calculations are pretty lame imo. They don't calculate build, muscle mass, or anything at all. Ryan Pickett is huge but in shape. He could outdistance most of us in the 40, don't you think?

Ryan Pickett(Even if you don't believe it, just keep quiet. This guy has a smile on his face, but if he's mad he'll block out the sun. And we don't want that. That whole the-sun-is-needed-for-life-on-earth thing is pretty important.)


Atari Bigby's Second Choice Sport: Football

Isn't it remarkable that Atari Bigby is so talented at football yet he acknowledges it isn't his favorite sport?Shocked Face
In fact, soccer is Atari Bigby's true favorite. A different kind of football. Some futbol if you will.

I just put my stellar Microsoft Paint talent to good use in order to drive this message home.

Atari BigbyI know. Next stop for my career? Graphic design.

I wonder if Atari Bigby ever tried to go pro in soccer. The sport is slowly gaining popularity among Americans, especially after the U.S. team did better than expected at the World Cup. Though it's never been my favorite sport, I still enjoy playing or watching it from time to time. And if Atari Bigby was a soccer player, I would definitely start watching soccer more often!


Green Bay versus New England Patriots

At 7:20 p.m. on Sunday, December 19th, the Green Bay Packers will be challenging the New England Patriots on Patriots' turf.

This should be a tough game but we have a chance.

The game airs on NBC Sports.

I'm staying in for this one (again, Green Bay Packers tickets would be awesome, but I'm not down for the travel costs!) and instead ordering lots of pizza and inviting the crew over.

Only a handful of games left until we rock the Super Bowl, right?!


Clay Matthews on the cover of SI

Sports IllustratedThis kind of cover is the dream of most football players and Clay Matthews hit the jackpot when appearing on the April 2009 edition. He stands confidently aside fellow USC teammates Brian Cushing and Rey Maualuga who all were all expected to be drafted early on. Clay Matthews was selected as the 26th overall pick--not too shabby for an often described "late bloomer" who was physically undersized until bulking up his senior year in high school.

I think that Clay Matthews appreciates the attention. With long blond locks, chiseled features, and a statuesque build, Matthews looks like a Roman general or English knight.

Clay Matthews"Even the water droplets flung from my full-bodied hair are beautiful."

So whether you tune in to the Green Bay Packers because of their great skill or because Clay Matthews resembles a Nordic god...

....either way you get some eye candy during the game!


Tom Crabtree's Image

So Tom Crabtree is new to the squad this season. Forget his football skills, though. Let's talk looks!

I have a few pictures of Tom with a couple different hairdos that radically change his persona.

Tom CrabtreeHere we go with Tom clean-cut, bright-eyed, and bushy-tailed. He looks like your run of the mill college kid who is about to enter his first internship. Eager. Ambitious. Excited. Wearing his first real suit. Close shaven and tidy. Probably logs lots of hours in front of the Xbox and has friends name Brian, Andy, and Pat.

Just a guess.

Now take a look at the slightly older version of Tom Crabtree.

Tom CrabtreeThis kid has seen some hard times. Anger management issues. Sticks with black Jnco jeans (the wider the better), concert tees for ICP and Tool, and likes to take a drag on a cig now and then with his friends, who are named Dusty, Jared, and Todd.

Which version is most like the true Tom Crabtree? Will he radically transform yet again as his pro career advances?

I guess we'll have to wait and see!


Green Bay Packers versus Detroit Lions


The Green Bay Packers take on Michigan's Detroit Lions on Sunday at (you guessed it) noon!

Can't wait to see some good December football. I can't believe the season is already winding down--just three games to go after this one. Sadness.

Fox Sports is carrying the game so tune in then!


Aaron Rodgers Mash-up

The Bible is his favorite book,
Guess it deserves a second look.
Charles is his middle name
Football is his one loved game.

Cali Map
Chico, Cali is still his home
No matter where else he will roam.
Green Bay must be just a bit too cold
For on California his heart is sold.

Aaron Rodgers Girl
Rumors say there's not just one girl in his life
Will he soon come to marry a wife?
His nickname is a simple one
"A-Rod" they call him; it's lots of fun!

His daddy-o, Ed, played semi-pro
I think that's one cool fact to know.
In high school A-rod played baseball
And was the pitcher for them all.

Does charity work from time to time
Listens to music like Sublime.
Loves The Office and Southpark
Where the humor is bitter and dark.

Aaron Rodgers
LA Dodgers are his team
And for them he'll surely scream.
Just like we do for the Pack
And can't wait until they next attack.


AJ Hawk's In-laws

Q: What does a mother-in-law call her broom?

A: Basic transportation.

* * *

My mother-in-law is a well balanced person. She's got a chip on BOTH shoulders.

* * *

Q: How many mothers-in-law does it take to change a light bulb?

A: One. She just holds it up there and waits for the world to revolve around her.

* * *

Well, the mother-in-law jokes are never in short supply on any given jokes website. Neither are horror stories of in-laws intruding on personal events, getting into huge fights, and not speaking for years. With all these in-law stories and jokes floating around, it got me wondering how AJ Hawk gets along with his wife's family.

AJ married Laura Quinn in a courthouse in 2006.

The happy couple

Laura Quinn, for those of you who aren't aware, is sister to Brady Quinn, aka Notre Dame turned Denver Broncos quarterback. Laura, Brady, and younger sister Kelly are the three children of Ty and Robin Quinn of Ohio. Robin and Ty had a reputation of being sports-minded, no-nonsense parents and it clearly served their children well. Brady is a successful pro athlete, Kelly played college level soccer and Laura competed in lacrosse.

Brady, Kelly and Ty Quinn

I have a feeling those awful in-law situations just don't hold true for AJ Hawk. This family seems practical and sports-minded like Hawk himself and that certainly is a good situation for them all to be in.



Green Bay versus the San Francisco 49ers

Where: Lambeau Field

Who: Green Bay Packers and the San Fransisco 49ers

When: Sunday, December 5 at noon

How: Green Bay Packers tickets or Fox Sports at noon

Why: Because we want to add another win to our record!!!

Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, Green Bay!


Daryn Colledge's Dogs

Daryn Colledge is a 6'4", 308 pound, 28 year old Green Bay Packers guard. He plays fierce in every game and has a huge cheering section at Lambeau Field.

Something else that is interesting about Daryn Colledge is that he and his wife, Megan, own two energetic boxers named Dash and Duke.

This is not Dash and Duke, but a picture of two boxers just so you can get the visual down.

Boxers were developed heavily by German breeders in order to refine their hunting skills. They were bred to handle prey with care, making them favorites of hunters and cattle ranchers alike. They can be known to be quite rambunctious and hyper, though, so plenty of exercise is a must. As a trade-off, you'll enjoy good protection services from a boxer because they are like canine alarms who frequently bark and alert owners to intruders.
And I'm sure Dash and Duke love football, too, just like Daryn.


Donald Lee's 'Do

...Or lack thereof.

What do you guys think about a guy without hair on their head?

Green Bay Packers tight end, Donald Lee, is one of those guys.

It would almost be foreign to see him with a full head of hair after so many years of smooth sailing. And in his self-selected baldness, Donald Lee has good company. Let's take a look at other shaven headers from around the U.S.

John Travolta dares you to question his lack of hair.

Britney Spears scares me here, but it's less to do with the baldness and more to do with the clumpy mascara. Try Lash Deluxe, girl!

Vin Diesel...Bald eagle. Sound alike? I think so. Important? Not at all.

I'm going to go ahead and say that out of these pictures, Donald Driver's are the best by far. I'm even trying to keep out my automatic Green Bay Packers bias.

How much money would someone pay you to go 100% baldy mcbalderson? Or are you dolled up bald right now?


Thanksgiving Weekend Game

Clear away the drumsticks.

Refrigerate the mashed potatoes.

Settle into the recliner and get ready for a lovely post-Thanksgiving day game!

The Green Bay Packers take on the Atlanta Falcons in an away game that will complete my Thanksgiving weekend. The game, as usual, will be aired by Fox Sports at noon.

I hope those Green Bay Packers kept away from gorging the past few days. We need them light and ready for action, especially down south. Gooooooooo Green Bay Packers!


Media Mogul Greg Jennings

Greg Jennings may be known for his wide receiving skills and tearing up the competition on Lambeau Field, but he's also known for his passion for media production.

As evidence of this interest, Greg Jennings has a couple intriguing projects he's currently pursuing.

The first is a website: www.GJ85.com. This site is dedicated to all things Jennings: bio, stats, charitable work, events, and a fan club. You can bet I joined that club right away! And I'm not alone: over 27,000 visitors were tracked on the site in its opening nine months. Ay carumba!

Greg Jennings has also ventured into the land of television. He partnered with FOX 6 Milwaukee to record segments for his very own program, "In the Locker Room with Greg Jennings.”

As a special treat, interwebs, I hereby present you with a Youtube clip entitled "Greg Jenning Video Diary." This is testament to his media talents and makes me fall in love with the Green Bay Packers all over again!


Twilight and Cullen Jenkins

Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you know that Twilight mania has swept a certain subsection of the U.S. population.

Book releases, movie opening nights, and T-shirts stating "Team Edward" or "Team Jacob" are inescapable. Rumors about Kristen Stewart and Robert Pattison swirl constantly and Taylor Lautner is on the cover of a gazillion magazines each year.

So, what does this all have to do with Green Bay Packers defensive end Cullen Jenkins?

It's all in his name.

According to recent data compiled from Social Security card applications and registered birth certificates, the name "Cullen" has spiked more than any other boy name in the year 2009. .026% of all baby boys are named Cullen and it ranks #485 on the list.

Though this may not seem like much, it is certainly more than when Cullen Jenkins was born. At that point, the name barely registered.

But due to the widespread fame of the Twilight story and its vampire named Edward Cullen, the name has spiked; experts specifically point to that vampire's surname to explain this effect.

I refute these claims.

Instead, perhaps it's super Green Bay Packers fans spreading across the globe who dub their little baby boys Cullen in honor of the smooth playing style of number 77.

Cullen Jenkins
I like that better.


Green Bay is going to defeat the Minnesota Vikings this weekend!

This Sunday, Minnesota has a rude awakening ahead of them! The Green Bay Packers and their fans will be flooding the Metrodome in a show of support for our green and gold.

I'm road-tripping to this game with three friends. The drive there is always eventful because it's a Packers parade at 80 mph down the highway!

I'm sure a few hard to find tickets are probably left, but if you're not seeing it live, then tune your TV to Fox Sports. Kick-off is at noon. Don't miss a minute!

Gooooooooo Packers!


Chad Clifton: A Community Minded Guy

Chad Clifton is 6'5" and 320 pounds. He has made a living knocking people down and exerting his physical prowess. Yet, inside this tough guy is the heart of gold (the color of the Green Bay accent color...coincidence? I think not.).

Chad Clifton
Chad Clifton's lists of community and civic-minded work and volunteering puts others to shame. Here's a few of his many accomplishments:

  • Golfed three years in a row to raise funds for Mark Tauscher's foundation
  • Helped raise money and food for a local food drive
  • Plays in a charity golf tournament to raise money for inner-city youth academics
  • Attended the Families of Children with Cancer Holiday Party in Green Bay
  • Modeled bike safety by helping hand out free helmets for Green Bay youth

In addition to this list, he has done other things--helped with the boy scouts, volunteered with the Donald Driver Foundation, and engaged in sports-based money raising drives.

Chad Clifton"I'd rather be volunteering."

We can all take a lesson from Chad Clifton's efforts and try to donate time, talents, and energy to our communities. Right, gang?????


What Donald Driver is reading

Listen up, bibliophiles. If you are looking for a new book to put on your winter reading lists, Donald Driver has some advice: read Sun Up.

Now, if you're like me, you immediately scoped out amazon.com for this alluring text. If Donald Driver is reading it, I must, too!

However, I hit a roadblock. Which Sun Up is the text to which the Donald refers?

Is it Sun Up by Elizabeth Cooper? This is a children's book about, apparently, a picnic between an assortment of animals.

Sun upCould this really be Donald Driver's pick?

Is it Sun Up by Alvin Tresselt and Henri Sorenson?

Sun upThis is a children's book about a day at a farm. Joy.

Or maybe it's Sun Up: Tales of the Cow Camps by Will James.

Sun upYet another children's book!

Donald Driver does enjoy juvenile fiction, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that a children's book was his all time fav. But which one is it? WHICH ONE????


Josh Sitton's Telemarking Past

Green Bay Packers guard, Josh Sitton, has a football rich past of course. Did you know he played with fellow Green Bay Packers player Atari Bigby during their college years at Central Florida? Well, he did. Believe it.

Josh Sitton
However, Josh Sitton was also at one point a telemarketer. He's sketchy on the details like the company, years worked, and pay, but it's still cool that he tried something other than football for a time.

Now here's my confession: I, too, worked as a telemarketer for four years in college. It was really telemarketing, I guess. I had to call alumni and ask for scholarship support for current college students. It's definitely not a job for those who take rejection personally.

Next time you're about to hang up on a telemarketer, ask yourself: Could this be a future NFL player?


Green Bay versus the Dallas Cowboys

On Sunday, the Green Bay Packers take on the Dallas Cowboys.

Game time is at 7:20 p.m. and NBC Sports will be covering the game.

Get Green Bay Packers tickets and go! A few are still popping up on craigslist. Unfortunately I can't make it (long story!) but I'll be watching it on the screen.

Go Packers!


Bryan Bulaga versus Jermichael Finley!

This is not based at all on looks!


Not at all!

This poll is based exclusively on names.

The question posed to you is as follows: Which Green Bay Packers player has the cooler name?

Option 1: Bryan Bulaga

My thoughts are these. Bryan is a pretty common name, though he does get creative points for using a "Y" versus an "I". There are many well-known Bryan/Brians out there, like these:

However, Bryan's last name is intriguing. Bulaga! Sounds like a baluga whale!

Let's get to Jermichael Finley.

The first name reminds me of Jermajesty, Jermaine Jackson's son and Michael Jackson's nephew:

Finley is a cute name and is making a run for becoming one of the newer top baby names for girls or boys in 2010. It means "fair headed."

With that, what do you guys think? Which Packers player has the cooler name?


Getting funky with Nick Barnett

Green Bay Packers linebacker Nick Barnett has musical talents! In fact, his love for turntables, hip-hop, rap, pop, blues, and music mixing and paved the way for several business ventures. The first, Clarity Records, is Nick Barnett's own record company. The second, Traxx Squad, is his production company, both of which keep him busy year round.

Nick BarnettIn June 2009, Clarity Records released the album "If This is the Mixtape, Imagine the Album" by artist Bee High from St. Louis, Missouri. Of course Nick Barnett was there to take it all in. It must have been satisfying for this former deejay to see his work pay off. It can take a long time for musical productions to get off the ground and Nick Barnett's seemed to fall into place.

Nick Barnett took his work a step further to bring music home. His Green Bay home now includes a full-blown recording studio! How cool is that?


Boo! Halloween Game ahead!

On Sunday, October 31, the Green Bay Packers take on the New York Jets. Game time is set for noon and Fox will be running the game, so tune your TVs to their station because I'm betting you won't be flying to New York for this spooky showdown!

Good luck, Green Bay Packers!!!!


Mason Crosby versus Jason Spitz: Who's hotter?

Gosh it's been awhile since I've done one of these "Who's hotter?" polls. Sorry, Packers fans. I know you've been waiting in anticipation.

Well, without further ado, I have a battle of the "-asons". You get one vote to let me know your decision.

Who is hotter: Mason or Jason?

Green Bay Packers kicker Mason Crosby

Green Bay Packers guard/center Jason Spitz


Brady Poppinga's little Julius Maxiumus

Sometimes when you go to watch a movie, you just don't know what's going to happen. Will you hate it and want to walk out? Will you be enraptured by the graphics and action? Will your favorite actress do a stellar job?

Or will you become such a huge fan of the movie that you name your first son after its main character?

Well, this last scenario happened to our Green Bay Packers linebacker, Brady Poppinga. He absolutely loves movies like Gladiator and 300--burly men challenged to keep physically and morally strong in the face of adversity. Sounds like his own adventures on a mission trip pre-NFL days!

He loved Gladiator so much that he convinced his wife, Brooke, to let the couple name their son Julius Maximus after Russell Crowe's character. Now that's crazy!

Julius Maximus
"Are you not entertained?"

Just makes me wonder if his daughter Jasmine was named for perhaps another of Brady Poppinga's favorite movies:

You never know.


Desmond Bishop and Halo

Last year we learned about Desmond Bishop's softer side and writing talents here.

Today I'd like to focus on his more definite masculine interests. For starters, he's in football. Could you get any more manly than that?

But he is also into another mostly man pursuit: video games. Of all his favorites, Halo takes the cake.

If you are unfamiliar with Halo, here's what I can tell you. It is addicting. Ask my cousin who easily logs 6 hours a day in front of the screen.

The graphics are supposedly great and with XBox Live, you can play against and with anyone in the world! I wonder if my cousin and Desmond Bishop ever stumbled across each other in their virtual battles. It could happen.

So there you have it. Desmond Bishop is a writer and a gamer. And that's the yin and yang of this Green Bay Packers linebacker.

Desmond Bishop


BIGGGGGG game this weekend

In just a few days, the Green Bay Packers will be hosting the Minnesota Vikings (hiss, boo!) for a late night Sunday game. Kick-off is at 7:20 p.m. and NBC Sports will be showing this one live.

These games are always close and I'm sure this one will be no exception. Can't wait to see the rivalry in the stands between Vikings and Packers fans! This would be a great game for you to see live, too. I scoped out a few websites and Green Bay Packers tickets are still available. Limited seats, perhaps, but the atmosphere can't be matched! It's worth it to take in this game live.


James "Dingo" Jones

James JonesAny 18 year old college guy who cares about making the college football team is going to try and impress his future teammates, right? Doesn't matter if he's loud, shy, talented, or not. When you first make the team, you need to prove your worth.

Well, Green Bay Packers wide receiver, James Jones, impressed his San Jose State teammates so much on his first day that he earned a lasting nickname: Dingo.

It all happened on the first day of weight room training when the guys headed down to their macho playground--the weight room. The weight room is often the place of male showdown and bravado, and this day was no exception. James hopped onto the bench, loaded up the weights, and earned the admiration of his new teammates. He bench-pressed a whopping 225 pounds 16 times without seeming to strain! The guys were awed. Shocked. Flabbergasted.

Shortly after this, he was dubbed Dingo in honor of professional wrestler Dingo Warrior.

DingoI wonder what he thinks about the nickname...and that guy's arm ribbons...


Frank Zombo's Game Face

As a top notch football player, you really need to make some key decisions for your image, career, and finances.

Things like....

Who will be my agent?

Should I leave my team?

Where should I live during the off-season?

And, most importantly: What will my photographed game face be?

The game face photo will be published in handouts at your college game. It will be broadcast on national TV during games. It will be displayed for the world to see on your pro team website.

It's huge.

Some prefer a friendly smile; others look mean. I'm thinking newcomer Frank Zombo is still developing his. Here are a few past examples.

Frank ZomboExhibit A: Trying to be tough. Eyes say intensity; lips say I'm about to smile!

Frank ZomboExhibit B: Neutral face. I don't think he's even aware his photo is being taken.

Frank ZomboExhibit C: Shadow of a smile. Or grimace.

My personal take is that Frank Zombo should just give us a grin. The neutral face looks like a smirk. The tough face looks silly. Maybe he's just a big happy guy deep down. Let it shine!


Green Bay versus the Miami Dolphins

Well those Miami Dolphins are swimming their way up to Lambeau Field for Sunday's big game. CBS Sports will broadcast the game for all those of you who didn't score Green Bay Packers tickets. Fortunately, I'll be there to take in the action live. I can't wait to get a hot dog and beer and settle on in for a GREAT game!


Quinn Johnson's Love of Sleeping

Quinn JohnsonWhen getting to know Quinn Johnson (aka "Q") of the Green Bay Packers, I decided to peruse his list of hobbies on the official Green Bay Packers website. Why not?

Well this action packed superstar listed just two:

1. Hanging out with his girlfriend

2. Sleeping

Did you catch that?



Whoa! Calm down, Quinn Johnson.

At 23, this guy should be at his prime! And sleeping is his second top hobby?

As it so often happens in situations like this, the words of my senior high English teacher come thundering back from those years so long ago. This was a teacher who played guitar for us each Friday, looked like he stepped straight out of 1973 though he was teaching decades later, and often lamented the fall of Whitney Houston ("whatta waste of talent"). That's all to just give you some context. He was unconventional and opinionated to say the least.

One of his most favorite phrases to bark at us, though, was the following tidbit of advice. This could be provoked by a student looking sleepy or attempting the old I'm-going-to-lay-my-head-on-the-top-of-my-desk moves. Here's what senior high English teacher would utter:


Perhaps not the most inspirational quote, but advice received. So I'm forwarding that advice to our narcoleptic pal, Quinn Johnson. Wake up! Drink a Red Bull! Leave the sleeping for when you're old and gray....like 40.